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  • 00:03

    SPEAKER 1: Two teachers, going for promotionto senior leadership--

  • 00:06

    MIKE LAMBERT: At previous interviews,I had to demonstrate leadership qualities,but going for an assistant headship is a whole new level.

  • 00:12

    REBECCA CLARK: Something about interviews,but I get very flaccid.I get very nervous and panic really.

  • 00:19

    SPEAKER 1: We put them through a mock interview--

  • 00:21

    SPEAKER 2: So what would be the difference between achievementand attainment?

  • 00:26

    SPEAKER 1: --give them expert coaching--

  • 00:28

    REBECCA CLARK: I've got drive and passion as well.

  • 00:30

    SPEAKER 3: Superb, fantastic, take another step up.

  • 00:32

    SPEAKER 1: --and interview them againto see if they can improve their performance.To help conquer the perils of the job interview,two teachers will face an interview panelfor a Senior Leadership post.[SPEAKING IN SPANISH]

  • 00:53

    SPEAKER 1 [continued]: First up, is language teacher, Mike Lambert.[SPEAKING SPANISH]Currently a teaching and learning leader,he's looking for an assistant headship.

  • 01:04

    MIKE LAMBERT: When you're head of department,you get hostile decisions that have been madeabove you on your department.But I really want to be in a positionwhere I can take an idea and run with itand make it happen, make a difference for the kids.Is that all right?

  • 01:15

    KIDS: Yes.

  • 01:16

    MIKE LAMBERT: Excellent.Brilliant, guys.I do actually quite enjoy these views.I quite enjoy meeting people.However, this next job I'm going to be going for,that's a pretty important job for me,so I want to make sure that I'm as good as I can be for that.

  • 01:30

    SPEAKER 1: The second candidate is Rebecca Clark.

  • 01:33

    REBECCA CLARK: Year seven, can I have your attention, please?

  • 01:36

    SPEAKER 1: After three years as an assistant head,she's determined to become a deputy headbut lacks confidence.

  • 01:42

    REBECCA CLARK: Obviously, having been at the same schoolfor 11 years, I've only had internal interviews.And at my last one, which was for the assistant headposition, I was actually sick on the day.A number of you may have reported back, so--There's just something about interviewswhere I get very flustered and I get very nervousand panic really.So I'm at the right stage of my career to make that move.

  • 02:06

    REBECCA CLARK [continued]: And the only thing that's holding me backwould be the interview process at the moment.

  • 02:13

    SPEAKER 1: Today, the posts are fictitiousbut the panel is formidable.Between them, they've interviewedover 500 candidates.Leadership expert and parent governor, Sara Milne Rowe--

  • 02:24

    SARA MILNE ROWE: I would advise anyoneto think of an interview as a performance in the same wayas a sports man or woman would think of an eventas something they build up for, and an actorwould think about the rehearsal process that'sintegral to the success of the show.

  • 02:37

    SPEAKER 1: Primary head teacher of the year 2007,Kevin Harcombe--

  • 02:40

    KEVIN HARCOMBE: The first few seconds of the intervieware absolutely vital.And that starts when you walk into the room.I remember when I was in three and four,with deputy heads, the panel saying later,that person, when she walked in through looked like a leader.

  • 02:56

    SPEAKER 1: And Anita Johnson, head teacherof an standing London secondary school.

  • 03:00

    ANITA JOHNSON: One of the key thingsis to show your personality.And if you show that personality,and show somebody who's enthusiastic and passionateabout what they're doing, then most of the panelwould enjoy actually talking to you.

  • 03:14

    SPEAKER 1: The interviews will beobserved by education coach, Simon Cooper-Hind.

  • 03:17

    SIMON COOPER-HIND: As a profession,Confession we always underestimateour own abilities.In an interview, it's got to be the other way around.You've got to really shine and showhow good you are in order that actually yousecure that job for yourself.

  • 03:36

    SPEAKER 1: First, to face the interrogators is Mike.

  • 03:39

    ANITA JOHNSON: In 25 words, describeyour vision of a school, quite a tough question, but--

  • 03:47

    MIKE LAMBERT: A school should be a placewhere people can develop, where they can grow,where they can succeed, and where they can feel safe.Have I got any more words?

  • 03:59

    ANITA JOHNSON: No, that's about it actually, well done.How would you evolve a monitoring system, using data,to improve student attainment.

  • 04:09

    MIKE LAMBERT: Well, it's key to check how staff are using dataat present.So you need to have an audit of whatwas going on at present to find out where you could move to.

  • 04:19

    ANITA JOHNSON: OK, taking that a bit further, whatother data would you use?

  • 04:22

    MIKE LAMBERT: We have our ALPS data.

  • 04:24


  • 04:25

    MIKE LAMBERT: And we have--

  • 04:26

    ANITA JOHNSON: That's an A level data, so at GCSE--

  • 04:28

    MIKE LAMBERT: At GCSE, I think that's the data we currentlyuse.I'm not aware of other ones.

  • 04:32

    ANITA JOHNSON: OK, so you are not currentlyusing any key stage two data?

  • 04:35

    MIKE LAMBERT: Oh, sorry-- apologies-- yes.Yeah, we do use key stage two to key stage four data now.

  • 04:38

    ANITA JOHNSON: So what would be the differencebetween achievement and attainment?

  • 04:42

    MIKE LAMBERT: Achievement and entertainment?[DRAMATIC MUSIC]I'm sorry, I don't know.I've always used the two interchangeably,I have to say it.

  • 04:59

    KEVIN HARCOMBE: In terms of your core beliefs,your core values in education, which one wouldyou actually lie down in the road forand say, no, this is staying?

  • 05:08

    MIKE LAMBERT: I think in terms of teaching in the classroom,I think variety, I'd like kids to be engaged.And I think when we move to a systemwhere kids would recognize what is goingto happen in every class, then they are going to be disengagedand they are going to turn off.So I think of variety, on a variety of levels

  • 05:30

    MIKE LAMBERT [continued]: there, if you like.

  • 05:31

    SARA MILNE ROWE: Safeguarding is high on our student agendaat the moment, what does this mean to you?

  • 05:36

    MIKE LAMBERT: Are we talking about safeguardingthe children?

  • 05:38

    SARA MILNE ROWE: Safeguarding generallyin terms of the [INAUDIBLE] criteria of safeguarding, whatdoes that mean to you?

  • 05:44

    MIKE LAMBERT: I'll go along with what I saidand talk of safeguarding of children.It's everybody's business in the schoolto make sure that children are all safe and looked after.The Every Child Matters agenda would ensure that.And so, It's everybody's responsibility,senior management involved and senior management--to ensure that everybody is informedof what they should be looking at to ensure that childrenare safe.

  • 06:05

    SARA MILNE ROWE: Thanks, Mike, very much.

  • 06:07

    ANITA JOHNSON: Thank you.

  • 06:07

    MIKE LAMBERT: Thanks, very much.

  • 06:08

    SPEAKER 1: So, what does the panel think?

  • 06:10

    SARA MILNE ROWE: From my point of view,I think he's a very personable young man,but he lacks knowledge and basic foundationsof which, at this level, he shouldhave better knowledge of.

  • 06:19

    KEVIN HARCOMBE: I agree with that.But it doesn't concern me too muchbecause they are the things you can teach quite quickly.All right, he may not have had that experience thus far,but in this new setting, he could do.And as you say, his personal skills are good.

  • 06:31

    SARA MILNE ROWE: I felt he was somebody whowas passionate about teaching.He came alight in certain questions for me.And then there were other questionslike I felt the safeguarding was a really big weak answer.I thought there's so much attentiongoing on to safeguarding at the moment,that that, in terms of his preparationfor an interview like this, I wouldexpect him to really get that.

  • 06:51

    ANITA JOHNSON: So just have a lookat the question about core values, his answer was variety.That is not a core value.

  • 06:57

    KEVIN HARCOMBE: That was weak.When he expanded on it, he got down more to what he meant.I think variety was the word thatrose to the top of his mind.

  • 07:05

    SIMON COOPER-HIND: Do you feel that once hewas under pressure, he then started to waffle?

  • 07:09


  • 07:10


  • 07:10

    SIMON COOPER-HIND: --or lose his way?

  • 07:12

    BOTH: Yes.

  • 07:12

    ANITA JOHNSON: And I think the question that puts him outof kilter was the data question, when I came back,what was the difference between achievement and attainment.And at that point he lost his confidence.So he needs to be able to regroup, forget that questionand move on.But I did like his honesty.

  • 07:28

    KEVIN HARCOMBE: I think build on the honesty and say--[AGREEMENT]--I don't know now, but I can find out very quicklyor I know the right person to ask.

  • 07:38

    SARA MILNE ROWE: I'm Sara, Parent Governor.

  • 07:40

    SPEAKER 1: Now it's Rebecca's turn.Will nerves get the better of her?

  • 07:45

    ANITA JOHNSON: This is going to be a bit of a toughie,but in 25 words describe your vision of a school.

  • 07:52

    REBECCA CLARK: I would want a schoolto be somewhere where it's a community, it's a place wherechildren can achieve, that is supportive, inclusive, safe--trying to think what else, it's about not even

  • 08:14

    REBECCA CLARK [continued]: just the students achieving, the staff achieving,fulfilling their potential as well.How am I doing with words?

  • 08:21

    ANITA JOHNSON: You're doing really well.

  • 08:22

    REBECCA CLARK: I'm just trying to keep a count of those.

  • 08:25

    ANITA JOHNSON: OK, how would you evolvea monitoring system using data to improve student attainment?

  • 08:32

    REBECCA CLARK: What I think is really importantand something I've been involved in this year quite a lotis with our year 11 students, and I'mstarting to actually develop that now for our year 10s,would be where we've met with all the heads of departmentbased on their marks--[CLOCK TICKING]Then got two other groups which are our target raisers

  • 08:56

    REBECCA CLARK [continued]: in our achievement groups.And we've split it, so it's boys and girls as well.So we're looking at things like gender.[CLOCK TICKING]A number of different things we're actually doing as well.Are they on target for achievementwith English and maths?Are they not going to achieve it with English and maths--

  • 09:11

    ANITA JOHNSON: OK, Rebecca, I'm going to--

  • 09:12


  • 09:12

    ANITA JOHNSON: --cut the question.You answered that really well, well done.

  • 09:15


  • 09:15

    KEVIN HARCOMBE: I presume in your teaching career,you've helped improve colleague's performance oneway or another.Can you talk me through what sort of things you've done?

  • 09:22

    REBECCA CLARK: Well this year and last year, I'vebeen line managing the Head of Citizenship at my school.And one of the things is I've triedto support her was her management of that department.[CLOCK TICKING]What we did, we met and we set some targets

  • 09:42

    REBECCA CLARK [continued]: for what we predicted, what we wanted the departmentto achieve.[CLOCK TICKING]Then I asked her to give me things.OK, give me for this term, when are you goingto meet with that as a team?When are you going to meet with that person--

  • 09:57

    KEVIN HARCOMBE: So there was support and challenge there?OK.

  • 09:59

    REBECCA CLARK: It was those kind of things a well.It wasn't me stepping in and doing it,it was about asking her to do those things.And then we put a revision package togetherfor the students so that she delivered.

  • 10:08

    KEVIN HARCOMBE: That's fine.You've answered that really fully, thank you.

  • 10:11

    SARA MILNE ROWE: If you were to describe your leadershipstyle as an animal, what type of animal would you be and why?

  • 10:19

    REBECCA CLARK: Maybe a be a bit like a cat.OK, I know that you've got cats thatcan be quite calm and restful, but at the same timeif something upsets it, it will get up and it will react to itand do something about it.I want to move things forward.I'm quite ambitious in that way.So if you see a cat, and there's like a mouse or something,

  • 10:42

    REBECCA CLARK [continued]: and it will go after than and it will try and catch it--In that way, I suppose.

  • 10:48

    SARA MILNE ROWE: Thank you.

  • 10:49

    ANITA JOHNSON: Thank you.

  • 10:51

    SPEAKER 1: So what do they think of Rebecca?

  • 10:53

    ANITA JOHNSON: Her foundations are good.I think she's an excellent candidate.She has got a good knowledge base.I think there were some excellent answers there.

  • 11:01

    KEVIN HARCOMBE: I think it was quite clear from allher answers, that she's tremendously hardworking, and has thought about career prospects,and has made sure she knows, and getsinvolved in certain things.And the passion is there for the children.

  • 11:13

    SARA MILNE ROWE: Actually, Simon, Ithink that she needs to manage her nerves because I thinkwe've got a candidate here who has a real passion for teachingand learning and she had so many specific examplesfor her questions.She needs to breathe, she needs to stop,and she needs to really give herself--

  • 11:35

    SARA MILNE ROWE [continued]: I felt she was just one stage ahead of her sentences,so they came out too quickly.I

  • 11:40

    ANITA JOHNSON: Think Rebecca reallydoes need to think about how she comes into the roomand how she sits down.Her body language is quite slumped.She needs to sit back a little bit.She needs to believe in who she is.And she needs to think about the color of her dress.It's all very black.It's one color, so she's setting about one dimension,whereas if she used just a few accessories--I sound like Gok Wan.

  • 12:00


  • 12:02

    ANITA JOHNSON: If she used a few accessoriesand changed the color slightly, then shewould be coming forward and feelingmore confident in herself.

  • 12:08

    KEVIN HARCOMBE: She needs someoneto tell her how good she actually is.

  • 12:10

    SARA MILNE ROWE: She does.

  • 12:10

    KEVIN HARCOMBE: No one else is goingto blow her trumpet for her.

  • 12:13

    SARA MILNE ROWE: She has to.

  • 12:13

    KEVIN HARCOMBE: She's got to come in and tell ushow good she is.

  • 12:18

    SPEAKER 1: Now Simon has just one hour with each candidateto transform them into serious contendersfor senior leadership.The first issue for Mike, weak answers.

  • 12:28

    ANITA JOHNSON: So what would be the differencebetween achievement and attainment?

  • 12:32

    MIKE LAMBERT: Achievements and attainment?I think it identified some gaps in my knowledge, whichI need to sort out before having another interview.

  • 12:42

    SIMON COOPER-HIND: What could youdo about those gaps in your knowledge?

  • 12:45

    MIKE LAMBERT: I think that's a questionof going back and speaking to people, specialistsin those areas, perhaps within my own school,reading the appropriate reports, and just makingsure I'm aware of the terminology that's currentlyin use.

  • 12:56

    SPEAKER 1: They also felt his responses needed more focus.

  • 12:58

    KEVIN HARCOMBE: What one thing would you like down in the roadfor in education?

  • 13:03

    MIKE LAMBERT: I think, variety--

  • 13:04

    SIMON COOPER-HIND: How do you feelyou answered that question?

  • 13:06

    MIKE LAMBERT: As I was leaving the room,I was immediately aware that this wasn't the top qualityanswer.It's not as good an answer saying, the students first off,I agree.

  • 13:16

    SIMON COOPER-HIND: I hadn't said that.

  • 13:17

    MIKE LAMBERT: Oh, sorry.I agree with your facial expressions.

  • 13:22

    SIMON COOPER-HIND: OK, can I ask you justto write down five key headings that youwould want to bring into a question about leadership.

  • 13:33

    MIKE LAMBERT: Accountability, I think treating peopleindividually, target--

  • 13:42

    SIMON COOPER-HIND: Communication--

  • 13:43

    SPEAKER 1: Using the headings, Mikecan structure an answer more clearly.

  • 13:47

    SIMON COOPER-HIND: Will you actually do me a favor?

  • 13:49


  • 13:49

    SIMON COOPER-HIND: Go ahead and just up.

  • 13:51


  • 13:51

    SIMON COOPER-HIND: I want you to move from here, moving throughto here and you put these more or less together.

  • 13:57


  • 13:58

    SIMON COOPER-HIND: I want you to structure an answer for me.Talk to me about your leadership within school.

  • 14:03

    MIKE LAMBERT: I think it's important to knowexactly who you're leading.Making sure that you understand what makes them tick,that will allow you to get down to what would help them.Talking to those people, making surethat you've communicated as effectively as youcan with them so that you're both on the same wavelengthand then working towards some sort of target,some sort of accountability for those targets

  • 14:24

    MIKE LAMBERT [continued]: and perhaps having used the data available to us from the schoolto show them why these targets are appropriate to them.

  • 14:30

    SIMON COOPER-HIND: OK, how did that process feel for you

  • 14:32

    MIKE LAMBERT: Yeah, that was really good.That made it very clear, actually.

  • 14:35


  • 14:36

    MIKE LAMBERT: Thanks very much.

  • 14:38

    SPEAKER 1: Now it's Rebecca's turn.It was nerves that let her down.

  • 14:42

    SIMON COOPER-HIND: Can I ask you to stand up?Do you mind?

  • 14:43


  • 14:44

    SIMON COOPER-HIND: Let's take a situation, and actually,this pillar here is you have utmost belief in yourself--

  • 14:50


  • 14:51

    SIMON COOPER-HIND: --and that job you're going to is yours.

  • 14:54


  • 14:55

    SIMON COOPER-HIND: Working down here towards this pillar,where you walked in that room and you thought, Ican't do this, where would you put yourself between those twopillars on today's interview?

  • 15:07

    REBECCA CLARK: I would say I was probably 50/50.

  • 15:09


  • 15:10


  • 15:10


  • 15:11

    REBECCA CLARK: About here, about 50/50.

  • 15:12

    SIMON COOPER-HIND: What do we needto do to move you up that way?

  • 15:17

    REBECCA CLARK: I've got to believe in myself more.

  • 15:19


  • 15:20


  • 15:20

    SIMON COOPER-HIND: So, why don't you believe in yourself?

  • 15:23

    REBECCA CLARK: Having been in the same schoolfor a long time, it's about knowing that what I do nowand what I want to do, I'm actuallyable to do somewhere else.

  • 15:30

    SIMON COOPER-HIND: OK, so do you believeyou've got that ability?

  • 15:33


  • 15:34

    SIMON COOPER-HIND: So can we take one step up, then?

  • 15:35


  • 15:36


  • 15:37


  • 15:37

    SIMON COOPER-HIND: OK, what else have you got?

  • 15:39

    REBECCA CLARK: I've got experience.I've got a lot of experience, as well.

  • 15:42

    SIMON COOPER-HIND: Brilliant, OK.How do you feel now?Take another step up.So we suddenly moved from halfway, to here.Keep going, this is good.

  • 15:48

    REBECCA CLARK: I've got driving passion as well.

  • 15:50

    SIMON COOPER-HIND: Superb, fantastic,take another step up.

  • 15:53

    REBECCA CLARK: And I've got ideas.I like to think outside of the box, quite experimentaland new ideas.

  • 15:58

    SIMON COOPER-HIND: What you just sharedwith me is all the skills that you neededto walk into that room with the confidence to say,this is my job.

  • 16:06

    REBECCA CLARK: Mm-hmm.

  • 16:07

    SIMON COOPER-HIND: So where are you going to stand now?

  • 16:10

    REBECCA CLARK: I'm going to step one more up--

  • 16:11

    SIMON COOPER-HIND: Thank you.

  • 16:11

    REBECCA CLARK: --against the post.

  • 16:13


  • 16:13

    SPEAKER 1: Now, can Rebecca think of five key wordsto describe her strength?

  • 16:17

    SIMON COOPER-HIND: Say the first word.

  • 16:19

    REBECCA CLARK: Passion.

  • 16:20

    SIMON COOPER-HIND: Show me, how are you going to sit?

  • 16:22

    REBECCA CLARK: I think I've got to sit back a bit more maybe.

  • 16:24

    SIMON COOPER-HIND: OK, what's the next word?

  • 16:25


  • 16:26

    SIMON COOPER-HIND: How are you going to sit?

  • 16:27

    REBECCA CLARK: I think, sit up a little bit.

  • 16:29

    SIMON COOPER-HIND: Oh, OK, so what else?

  • 16:31

    REBECCA CLARK: Hard working.

  • 16:33

    SIMON COOPER-HIND: Look at the way your shoulders are now.So, keep going, what else?

  • 16:35

    REBECCA CLARK: OK, inclusive--

  • 16:37

    SIMON COOPER-HIND: Look at they way you've put your hands,all-inclusive.

  • 16:39

    REBECCA CLARK: And then the last word, supportive.

  • 16:42

    SIMON COOPER-HIND: Stop.Don't move, just turn your eyes now and look in the mirror.How does that look?

  • 16:48

    REBECCA CLARK: I suppose, before, Twicewas sitting forward a lot more.Now I'm sitting back, more powerful in a way, in controland confident.

  • 16:55

    SIMON COOPER-HIND: You've just shared with methe fact that actually you have allthe skills necessary to take on a senior leadership position.So tell me why you are ever going to worry againabout going to an interview?

  • 17:10

    REBECCA CLARK: When you put it like that,then I shouldn't be worried.It's about having that belief and being securein that knowledge that that's what I believe in.And I can't think of anything to arguewith you about on that now.

  • 17:31

    SPEAKER 1: After the tension of the interview process,Mike has been unwinding on the beachand working on the strategies Simon gave him.

  • 17:37

    MIKE LAMBERT: I've been preparingfor my next interview.I've been speaking to various assistant heads at schooland making sure that I'm filling those gaps in knowledge.I've made a series of cards on each topic,so I'm able to walk through the answersto any question that comes up.So all in all, I think I've got reasonto feel a little more confident going to that next room.

  • 17:58

    REBECCA CLARK: I found the coaching really useful.It made me really reflect on the whole package for interviews,not just about answering the questions,but the way I present myself.There's also the words that I was given and tryingto go through those words and think about themand just keep remembering that they are my strengths

  • 18:19

    REBECCA CLARK [continued]: and things that I think are really strong.Just recapping those makes you feel a lot betterabout yourself and makes you believe in yourself.

  • 18:28

    SPEAKER 1: It's the day of the second interview.Our expert panel are back to judge Mike and Rebecca'sperformance.Are they ready for senior leadership?

  • 18:39

    REBECCA CLARK: When I sit down, I'llbe thinking about making sure that I'm sitting up straight,I've got my shoulders back, have those wordsgoing through my head again.

  • 18:50

    MIKE LAMBERT: I'm feeling rather more confident now.I feel like I've filled in the gaps in knowledge.I'm ready to face the panel.

  • 18:59

    SARA MILNE ROWE: Hi Mike, welcome.

  • 19:01

    ANITA JOHNSON: How would you evolvea monitoring system using data to improve student attainment?

  • 19:06

    MIKE LAMBERT: When we're looking at data,you've got to look at the attainment and the achievementof the pupil.So you've got to look at--

  • 19:12

    ANITA JOHNSON: What's the difference between attainmentand achievement?

  • 19:14

    MIKE LAMBERT: So essentially their attainmentis the eventual grades they're goingto come out with, that data.And the achievement is relative to their progress.So you're looking at what they came in with,a key of stage two, and what they're moving forward to,and the difference between the two.

  • 19:29

    ANITA JOHNSON: Share with us one exampleof a school initiative that you yourself have been involved in.

  • 19:34

    MIKE LAMBERT: A school initiative,a teaching initiative we looked at this yearwas about introducing risk into the school.It's emerged that students were gettinga little bit bored with a formulaic approach to lessons.There was nothing to excite them.And so we've been encouraging staffto take on more and more risks to try out activitiesthey haven't tried before, to have a go at something.

  • 19:56

    MIKE LAMBERT [continued]: And to that effect, I've been producing some resources,I've been gathering resources from other staff have tried,I did.And they're all now stored, essentially,and I'm hearing back from staff and from studentson a regular basis to how they're progressingwith those risky activities.

  • 20:10

    SARA MILNE ROWE: If we were to offer youthe position of assistant head, what would youdo within your first 20 days?

  • 20:17

    MIKE LAMBERT: Wow, presidents get 100 days, don't they?In terms of taking on any leadership position,you have to show that you're a good communicator, show that--get yourself known to the team, make it team awarethat you're available and you're approachableand that they could come talk to you for positive or negativereasons and such.I'd like to show myself as a good role model,

  • 20:37

    MIKE LAMBERT [continued]: but start off to delegate tasks and to showthat I was able to hold people accountable.

  • 20:41

    SARA MILNE ROWE: Thank you very much, Mike.

  • 20:42

    MIKE LAMBERT: It was a pleasure.Thanks very much.

  • 20:44

    ALL: Thanks.

  • 20:47

    SPEAKER 1: Now Rebecca, is she feeling more confident?

  • 20:50

    KEVIN HARCOMBE: So, a scenario for you,it's your first day at the job and youarrive to find that the head has flown offto Rio with the business manager taking all of the school budgetwith them.

  • 20:59


  • 20:60

    KEVIN HARCOMBE: What are the first threethings you'd have to do?

  • 21:04

    REBECCA CLARK: I would have to contactthe Chairman of the governors.I would also have to inform the Bureau and get in contactwith the LEA, inform them.And the third thing I believe I would have to dois probably contact the police.

  • 21:23

    KEVIN HARCOMBE: OK, thank you.

  • 21:24

    ANITA JOHNSON: What frustrates youmost in your job as a leader from day to day, on a dayto day basis.

  • 21:33

    REBECCA CLARK: I think for me it comes back to the studentsagain--not the students frustrating me, but sometimeswhere I feel that we're not always doing enoughto support them and to develop them and take themon that journey in education.And where we don't all work together to do that,we don't bring everyone together and work as a team.

  • 21:54

    ANITA JOHNSON: What one example of a whole school initiativehave you been part of and have led?

  • 21:60

    REBECCA CLARK: At present, a large pieceof work that I'm working on is year 10 and year 11interventions.So I've been responsible for collectingthe raw data on those students, and then around that,planning interventions to match their needs.And I've led that in meetings and reporting backto the monitoring board on that as well.

  • 22:20

    SARA MILNE ROWE: Thank you very much, Rebecca.

  • 22:22

    REBECCA CLARK: Thank you.

  • 22:22

    KEVIN HARCOMBE: Thank you.

  • 22:24

    REBECCA CLARK: I think the interview went much betterthan last time.I felt a lot more confident.I felt like I was dressed for the partbetter and so that helps me, walking in there,feel much more comfortable and up for the interview really.

  • 22:36

    MIKE LAMBERT: I think the interview went much better.I was much more confident with some of the answers I gave.I felt that I'd filled the gaps in knowledge.There was one or two things that still caught me out,but that's fair enough.

  • 22:46

    SPEAKER 1: But does the panel think they've upped their game?

  • 22:48

    ANITA JOHNSON: I'm glad to see, between the previous interviewand this interview, that you've obviously done somethingon your knowledge base.

  • 22:54


  • 22:55

    ANITA JOHNSON: But you've also developed a betterway of answering questions.You've not waffled as much.And what you've done is been quite succinct in the answers.My concern is that you have nevershown a departmental impact or a year impact,so you don't have anything that's proven just to you.

  • 23:13

    MIKE LAMBERT: OK, thanks for that.

  • 23:14

    KEVIN HARCOMBE: I thought your first interview was fine.I thought you're second one was much better.You've clearly built on your knowledge base since last timeand also your warmth and your personality,which are two of your biggest assets came across.And that's important.That's one of the things we're looking for.You injected some humor.You talked about, president gets 100 days,just be a little bit wary of making it sound too flip.

  • 23:36

    KEVIN HARCOMBE [continued]: It's a fine judgment and you have to weigh up the panelas much as they weigh up you.But I was impressed.I'd like you to talk a little bit moreabout you, the things you do.I did this, I did that, I did this as part of a team,because it's you we're buying into in this interview.

  • 23:54


  • 23:54

    KEVIN HARCOMBE: But, well done.

  • 23:55

    SARA MILNE ROWE: You have a tendency under pressureto go fast.So my advice to you is to rememberthat that's where adrenalin pushes you and to pause more.You have fillers that will suddenly come in and go,right, sure, um, OK.And there's a sort of--[SNAPPING] I feel there's a pressure for youto get into the answer.And I think you could afford to stop and really

  • 24:15

    SARA MILNE ROWE [continued]: take in what the question is.

  • 24:17

    MIKE LAMBERT: Thank you.

  • 24:18

    SARA MILNE ROWE: OK, Rebecca--Kevin, would you like to kick off?

  • 24:22

    KEVIN HARCOMBE: You know your stuff.You know your stuff really well.And your empathy with the childrenand your passion for the job do come across to some extent.The first time around, there was a fair bit of wafflebefore we got to the meat.This time around, you're much bang, bang, bang,and you got your answer in there.So again, well done.

  • 24:42

    SARA MILNE ROWE: Yes, I think it'sa matter of confidence for you.And what I noticed in the second interview experience,I felt you had more of it.So whatever you were doing, it was working.I thought you smiled more, which was great.And there's something for me around just feeling itin your body, that confidence.I want you to allow yourself out, really, more,

  • 25:03

    SARA MILNE ROWE [continued]: so big improvement I felt.

  • 25:04

    REBECCA CLARK: Thank you.

  • 25:05


  • 25:06

    ANITA JOHNSON: There are several different things that Ithink you need to consider.The first thing is I do think you'regoing to have to do a sideways move because you'vegot one school.On your CV, with this pass-throughDH level, probably not.Somewhere on the CV, you need to sell one thing,I have been kept in this school because I'vebeen promoted again and again because

  • 25:29

    ANITA JOHNSON [continued]: of the qualities and the leadership that I show,otherwise they wouldn't have wanted to keep you.That is something you've got to sell on here, OK?When you come in for a headship interview,it's, do you look like you are the head?OK, so if you walk in like that, [MUTTERS]no one's going to buy that.If you walk in like you own the place beforehand,

  • 25:50

    ANITA JOHNSON [continued]: that's what they're buying.They're buying the image.They're buying the way you dress.They're buying the way you look.They're buying the way you look at people.

  • 25:57

    KEVIN HARCOMBE: It's the five second impact.

  • 25:58


  • 25:58

    SARA MILNE ROWE: This isn't about puttingon a mask or a show that's not you,it's about finding out which costume, basically fits you.And not coping anybody else, it's really about finding out,this is me and this is what I feel comfortable in.

  • 26:12

    ANITA JOHNSON: You've got a really lovely smile.My worry at interview with you would always be one thing,is he going to be too much of a nice guy.And I would, so you've got to come in with a bit of steeloccasionally.

  • 26:24

    KEVIN HARCOMBE: Well done.

  • 26:25

    ANITA JOHNSON: Well done.

  • 26:26

    SARA MILNE ROWE: Yea, really well done.

  • 26:28

    REBECCA CLARK: I think I'm going to go away from this experienceand be a lot more confident about interviews.I know that I'll be able to do the joband I'll do it well, so I feel really confident about thatand really know how to prepare myself better in the future.

  • 26:42

    MIKE LAMBERT: It's been a great experience.I've really enjoyed myself.I think I've got a lot out of the feedback that came backto me.It was was very useful.I can use it really well.Hopefully, next time I go to interview,I'll be stronger than ever.

  • 26:54

    SPEAKER 1: For further interview tips from the panel,see the web clips on the program page at

  • 30:04

    SPEAKER 1 [continued]: [NO ENGLISH SPEECH]


Two educators face an interview panel for an educational leadership position. Simon Cooper-Hind gives tips to both on improving their interview skills prior to facing the panel a second time.

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Becoming a Senior Leader

Two educators face an interview panel for an educational leadership position. Simon Cooper-Hind gives tips to both on improving their interview skills prior to facing the panel a second time.

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