NARRATOR: Two teachers going for promotion.Both hate job interviews.
COLIN DOUGLAS: The last interview was a disaster.
RAJ JUTLEY: Sometimes I get lost asto exactly what they want from me.
NARRATOR: We put them through a mock interview.
STEVE WILKS: How important is it that your leaders actas role models?
NARRATOR: Give them expert coaching.
LEE MCAULIFFE: It sounds a bit more like a leader wouldexpress that.
NARRATOR: And see if they can improve their performance.[Succeed at Interview as Middle Leader]
NARRATOR: To help conquer their fear of the job interview,two teachers at Oaks Park High Schoolwill be facing an interview panel for a middle leaderposition.First up is science teacher Colin Douglas.
COLIN DOUGLAS: What's the gas involved in respiration?What gas do we need to in order to respire?
NARRATOR: He's determined to become a head of yearand was interviewed for a similar post three months ago.
COLIN DOUGLAS: The last interview was a disaster.Nerves really took the better of me.And basically, no matter what question I was asked,I babbled back the same answer.And so I'm determined that the next time an opportunityarises that I must get the post.I can't even possibly deal with failure again.
RAJ JUTLEY: Monstrous aliens.Spaceships appear in the sky and drift overheadbefore slowly landing.
NARRATOR: The second candidate is math teacher Raj Jutley.The head of department is leaving next year,and Raj wants his job.
RAJ JUTLEY: I get very nervous in interviews.It's the questions which are unexpected thatthrow me a little bit.Trying to understand exactly what they're looking for Ifind very difficult sometimes.I get lost as to exactly what they want from me.
NARRATOR: Today the post is fictitious,but the panel is very real.Head teacher Steve Wilks, who's interviewedover 700 candidates in his time, and his deputy Kevin Wyre.
KEVIN WYRE: From very early on, even maybe the first 30 secondsand the first handshake, you are picking up indicationsfrom them that will ultimately help you form a judgment.And whilst you can't gain the job in the first 30 seconds,you can begin to lose the job in the first 30 seconds.
STEVE WILKS: I think what we are lookingfor is someone who's going to work within an areaand be capable of leading within that areaand inspire their colleagues.
NARRATOR: The interviews will be observedby professional development coach Lee McAuliffe.
LEE MCAULIFFE: Some candidates let themselves downfor a variety of reasons.So it may be nerves, which means they are eitherspeaking too quickly or they don't tell the panel enough.It may be also they are unprepared and don't actuallyknow about the role, or more importantly the schoolto which they have applied.
NARRATOR: First in is Colin.
STEVE WILKS: Colin, Steve Wilks.
COLIN DOUGLAS: Nice to meet you.
KEVIN WYRE: Kevin Wyre.Deputy Head.Hi, Colin.
STEVE WILKS: Welcome to Oaks Park.So if you could start off with your presentationabout your educational philosophy and values.
COLIN DOUGLAS: Well, my main philosophy and valuescomes in two parts, the first being reallyfrom what I've seen in Oaks Park, whichis learning together and achieving together.And then the second one, which is somethingthat I've had through my school life and through my home lifeas well, which is learning today for living tomorrow.And I think they're two very powerful things, in that we're
COLIN DOUGLAS [continued]: preparing students for the futureand we're trying to recognize achievementsas they go through school.In addition to that, I'm also tryingto encourage them to build, and theyhave done, in year 10-- trying to get them to buildrelationships within the class.And in addition to that--
KEVIN WYRE: Can I jump in there and just saythat's fine for time now.Thank you.
COLIN DOUGLAS: OK.
STEVE WILKS: OK.Thank Could very much.Could you perhaps give me an example of somethingthat you've done within school that's really very much downto you as an individual, and then perhapsanother example of where you've been working effectivelyas a team?
COLIN DOUGLAS: As an individual, I'veprovided trips for [INAUDIBLE],, whichis to say to south of France for Water Sports Week,and also to [INAUDIBLE],, which is now [INAUDIBLE] EducationCenter in Wales.I, along with the rest of the staff,have put together schemes of work.
COLIN DOUGLAS [continued]: I've made sure that the curriculum is running.It's a totally different curriculum, too,from when I first started here.I, in and amongst the team, was workingon making sure the project--or their lessons-- are [INAUDIBLE]keeping [INAUDIBLE] throughout.And really, together, we're achieving this.
COLIN DOUGLAS [continued]: And [INAUDIBLE] is now running quite successfully,in my opinion.
STEVE WILKS: OK.Thank you so much.Kevin?
KEVIN WYRE: Thank you.A member of staff that you line managehas not met any of their performance managementobjectives.How do you approach their next cycle?
COLIN DOUGLAS: Again, I don't like to act too soon.But why haven't they met this?Is this because they're refusing to cooperateand they're refusing to act in good practice?And also, I'd be asking myself what if theyhaven't met these targets?Why has it got this far?Why have I let that go as far as the end of the review cycle.Because I would expect that.
COLIN DOUGLAS [continued]: Well, you know, you're not getting your targets.We're going to try and give you a hard time,try and coax them, try and bring them to meand try and show them positive and good practice.
KEVIN WYRE: OK.Thank you.
STEVE WILKS: OK.Thank you very much.
COLIN DOUGLAS: Thank you.
KEVIN WYRE: Thanks, Colin.Nice to meet you.
COLIN DOUGLAS: Right, right.
NARRATOR: Now the feedback.
STEVE WILKS: I felt that where hewould need to do quite a lot of his workwould be on the two-minute presentation.Because I felt that he just sort of went into dialogue there,and he wasn't sharp enough.And it wasn't focused enough.
LEE MCAULIFFE: What I'm sensing as well from his answersis just a lack of structure, per se.Because at one point, I [INAUDIBLE] written.And where the full stops when he speaks, really?And Because one blends into another.And actually, what he may be saying is very pertinent.But there's no structure that leavesit memorable in your minds, is there?
KEVIN WYRE: But there were times when he'd actuallyanswered the question, and he'd answered it very well.And he still went on and over-egged the puddingand then still kept going.He doesn't like silences, does he?He fills that space up with chatter.
LEE MCAULIFFE: Yeah.It was interesting.There was one time where he paused for probably about twoor three seconds, which, again, to him probably didfeel like half a minute.But actually, the quality of his answer after he pausedwas much better.
NARRATOR: Now it's Raj's turn.
STEVE WILKS: Hi, Raj.Steve Wilks.
KEVIN WYRE: Hi, Raj.Kevin Wyre.
NARRATOR: First, her presentation.
RAJ JUTLEY: I hope to bring an open mindand a positive attitude and high expectationsto the classroom each day.I believe that I owe it to my students, as well as community,to bring consistency, diligence, and warmth to the job.Trust between a teacher and a studentis very important, if a teacher isgoing to maximize a student's potential.
KEVIN WYRE: 10 seconds.
RAJ JUTLEY: OK.I would like to go on a little bit more,but I know I am running out of time.But yeah, I think a well-rounded person--I think that's what I'm trying to get and also the fact if youbelieve in a child, they'll rise to the occasion as well.
STEVE WILKS: Give me two examples the first onebeing of a piece of work that has really been your ownand then secondly an example of somethingwhere you've really worked as part of an effective team.
RAJ JUTLEY: The first thing is--what's my own?I'd say the Booster classes--the Booster program which I ran last yearfor students who were on the D grades moving upto the C grade.I was the one who put all of that together.I was the one who initiated the program, put a hell
RAJ JUTLEY [continued]: of a lot of effort into it.Group work.The one thing that I would say that I particularly--can I particularly say one thing?Could you ask me that second part again?
STEVE WILKS: SMT is planning to introduce an initiativethat you don't agree with.You have to implement the initiativewith the members of your team and gain their compliance.How do you go about doing that?
RAJ JUTLEY: The idea has obviously [INAUDIBLE]..But I'd not only take that idea, I'dtry and manipulate it-- well, not manipulate it as such,but try and keep it what you're askingbut trying to put it into a way thatwill work for my department.And then obviously, because I believe in it,and then I'll sell it to the rest of the department.
STEVE WILKS: Thank you.If you were to be successful today,what would you hope to achieve in your first threemonths in post?
RAJ JUTLEY: I'd say the first threemonths would be more of a settling in period.I wouldn't want to rock the boat as such.Initially, I'd say for three monthsI'd let everybody get used to my way of leading.And then after the three months time--maybe a little bit longer.Maybe it's not just three months period.
RAJ JUTLEY [continued]: Maybe after half a year, start looking at what I can do,getting the team on board, making sure everybody'shappy with what's happening.Because I think that's very important,because it has been such a stable department for sucha long time.
STEVE WILKS: OK.That concludes this part of it.Thanks very much.
KEVIN WYRE: I just think her nerves kicked in big time.And she ended up, even more so than Colin, rambling.
LEE MCAULIFFE: Her language began to change, interestingly.And I felt it just became very informal and almostinappropriate at times for an interview.So we had phrases like, I wouldn't want to rock the boat,I'm on the case, I've asked this question before,I totally messed up.And there was just a shift there.
KEVIN WYRE: The question about, what would youlike to achieve in the first three monthsI thought was really interesting.Because by the time she finished answering it,she'd stretched out three months of the first six months.So she bought more time.You got the sense she was saying,I'm not going to impose a leadership style on them,but that first three months wouldbe spent with them getting used to my way of leading.And I then put in brackets here, "By not leading?,"
KEVIN WYRE [continued]: question mark.She used words like "manipulate," "subvert."And I'm wondering how comfortable I would actuallyfeel in terms of her going away as a team leaderand not doing our bidding, but actually backing us up.I think she provided an excellent exampleas to why you don't take a written set of notes
KEVIN WYRE [continued]: into a presentation.Because under times of pressure, you resort to reading it.
LEE MCAULIFFE: I sometimes think an interviewis almost like going on a blind date, in terms of you'reboth working out, do we want to see each other again?
STEVE WILKS: Absolutely.
NARRATOR: After the feedback, each candidatehas one hour of coaching with Lee.Colin is worried about his tendency to waffle.
COLIN DOUGLAS: The curriculum I was running,it's a totally different curriculumto when I first started here.
LEE MCAULIFFE: If we think about one of the questionsthat you were asked, and then what we will dois I'll get you to map out your answer.And then we'll just think about gettingrid of any of the waffle and making sure that in the answeryou're selling yourself.The wording they asked you exactly wasgive examples of work that you've done as an individualand where you've needed to work as part of a team.
LEE MCAULIFFE [continued]: So perhaps if we take, then, two separate sheets.And as I say, either note on those or with the Post-Its whatyour answer would ideally be.
NARRATOR: Colin cuts the waffles and highlights only key aspectsof his work in a team.
LEE MCAULIFFE: And interesting howyou've shown that, in a sense, almost putting themas bullet points, which is somethingthe interview panel said almost to present as bullet points.
COLIN DOUGLAS: Progression meant that the teamhad to meet regularly.The projects had to be of increasing demandas we went through the year.And then schemes of work had to be, in some respect,consistent.
LEE MCAULIFFE: So as a result of these activities,what was the actual impact?
COLIN DOUGLAS: By the end of the academic year,year seven levels were up.
LEE MCAULIFFE: Brilliant.So that's already something that you'reable to think, right, in readiness for an interview,then you will be gemmed up on the impact of what you've done.
NARRATOR: Colin tackles the other partof the question, what he's done as an individual.
COLIN DOUGLAS: If I were planning and had to plan aheadand had to make sure that ends were going to meet.
LEE MCAULIFFE: Are there any differencesas to the things you pulled out there as opposed to here?
COLIN DOUGLAS: These seem to be more based on a leader,whereas this seems to be more based on a team player.
LEE MCAULIFFE: Interesting [INTERPOSING VOICES]..Just that tweak that you've just begun to make,which is something the interview panel said,to keep the leadership role to the fore.
NARRATOR: Colin also wants help with his nerves.
COLIN DOUGLAS: Even making my way to the interview,I can feel that the pulse is up.I'm just panicking.By the time I get to the interview,I've lost all control.
LEE MCAULIFFE: What I'm going to ask you to do, first of all,is to think about a time when the nerves aren't there at all,so a time when you do feel very confident, very relaxed,very controlled.I'm going to ask you to visualize that now.And then what I'm going to ask you to dois just to put your thumb and then your middle finger
LEE MCAULIFFE [continued]: together and just press them togetherwhen you've got that picture.And I'll take you through that again.So if you see what you saw and hearwhat you heard and then feel whatyou felt and they just really push them together.And then let go.And you sort of lock it in there.And it means that, then, when we're
LEE MCAULIFFE [continued]: on that walk to the interview roomthat we're going to sort of practice in a secondyou're able to press the switch.And then you're able to go in with that in your mind,rather than your head just being full of, I feel nervous,I feel really worried.Are you happy to share what that experience was?
COLIN DOUGLAS: And the experience was in the job,and it was in teaching.And it was actually in my classroom.And it was the students, and I knew that they were learning.And I knew that they were understanding physics.And I felt very happy that they were progressing.I felt confident in myself because of the wayI delivered it to them, and then they had progressed.
LEE MCAULIFFE: Get that feeling of confidence.
NARRATOR: Reliving his experience in the classroom,Colin imagines he's walking to the interview.
LEE MCAULIFFE: And then if you just wantto walk forward a bit longer.So you've got that.Talk me through what you're saying to yourself now.
COLIN DOUGLAS: I'm going to do everything I can.I'm going to do my very, very best.
LEE MCAULIFFE: Yeah.
COLIN DOUGLAS: I really want the job.
LEE MCAULIFFE: How did that feel?
COLIN DOUGLAS: Much better.Much better, actually.
NARRATOR: Now it's Raj's turn.The panel was worried about her choice of language.
RAJ JUTLEY: Put a hell of a lot of effort into it.
LEE MCAULIFFE: I noticed a few of the phrasesthat you used, which as a coach I'm not judging you on.I'm just going to put them to you.And then what I thought we could do is literally reframe them.You're talking about something you've done.And you'd say, I'd let them know I'm on the case.So just write that down, please.So "I'm on the case."Think about a colleague who's a leader within the school who
LEE MCAULIFFE [continued]: you respect, who deals with things very effectively,and uses the language that you want to use.What would they say?
RAJ JUTLEY: "Looking into it."
LEE MCAULIFFE: Would that feel better for you?
RAJ JUTLEY: It feels better with them dealing with it.
LEE MCAULIFFE: OK.Yeah."A hell of a lot of effort into it."What did you want the interview panelto know at that point about that issue?
RAJ JUTLEY: A lot of time and effort went into the project.
LEE MCAULIFFE: OK.Yeah, that feels better for you?
RAJ JUTLEY: Yeah.
LEE MCAULIFFE: Brilliant.Let's pop that down, then.What we're doing is just beginning this processof thinking through perhaps some of the phrasesyou're using and then tweak them so that theysound more like the leadership role that you're applying for.
RAJ JUTLEY: That seems very a crass sort of thing.It seems very much someone not of leadership quality as such.
NARRATOR: In her presentation, Rajresorted to reading her notes.What could she do instead?
RAJ JUTLEY: I suppose bullet points.A few points on a page is obviouslya lot easier way to get back onto trackrather than whole sentences.
NARRATOR: Raj often misunderstood the question.
RAJ JUTLEY: Could you ask me that second part again?
LEE MCAULIFFE: You mentioned about sometimesneeding to check in what the question was.You found that you were answering a different question,and then you had to go back.In future, you will what, then?Next time, I will?
RAJ JUTLEY: Clarify what the question is.
LEE MCAULIFFE: How are you going to clarify that with meas the interviewer?
RAJ JUTLEY: "Would you mind rephrasing it?"Sorry, do you mind saying that again?""Do you mind saying that again?"
LEE MCAULIFFE: Mhm.So we got rid of the sorries, because thatsounds a bit negative.Any other tweaks about, "do you mind?"
RAJ JUTLEY: Can you?Can you say that again?
LEE MCAULIFFE: Does that feel less negative for you now?
RAJ JUTLEY: It makes me feel more confident.
NARRATOR: And then there was the questionabout what she'd do in the first three monthsas head of department.
RAJ JUTLEY: Three months time.Maybe a little bit longer.Maybe it's not just three months period.
LEE MCAULIFFE: And at one point, youseem to suggest that you were tweaking the question in termsof, then, actually, it's six months.Could you imagine some of the questions, queries, concernsthat might be arising in the deputy head's mindas you mentioned just that?
RAJ JUTLEY: When I become head of department,nothing's going to happen.I've got no agenda in mind.
LEE MCAULIFFE: What could you say in additionto what you've just said where you might nowwant to take bits out?Just work with that now.
RAJ JUTLEY: Within the first three months,I want to try and get everybody comfortable with my leadershipthe way I want to lead, the way I lead.But in my mind, I have a vision for the future,and this is where I want the department to go.Obviously they can't read my mind.
LEE MCAULIFFE: Not quite.
NARRATOR: For the last two weeks,Colin's been working on the strategies Lee gave him.
COLIN DOUGLAS: So I found the coaching session most useful.It's just really helped me to be able to think about howto answer a question properly without remembering reamsand reams of text.I'm hoping that the sequences that I've got from the coach,that they'll help me to be more calm and settled as I walk in.And I have practiced that.Hopefully it will show up.
COLIN DOUGLAS [continued]: So I'm hoping that what I've practiced at homewill actually come into play tomorrowand it will really help the situation.
RAJ JUTLEY: The coaching session was brilliant.I got so much out of it.I've been a lot more aware of myself in terms of the wayI speak, the way I come across, my language.I've been very careful about what sort of language I use.If I want to become head of department,then I need to believe that I can become it, act like I can.
RAJ JUTLEY [continued]: I'm happy, a lot more happy about going this timethan I was before.
NARRATOR: Back at Oaks Park, it's the dayof the second interview.The panel will get to see if the candidates haveupped their game.Steve and Kevin are joined by year 11 student Ross.Meanwhile, Colin and Raj are psyching themselves up.
COLIN DOUGLAS: I'm walking towards the interview now.I'm feeling calm thinking about whenthe students were understanding this tough concept in physics.They were all able to understand it,and they were able to grasp the conceptby the end of the lesson.
RAJ JUTLEY: I want to be myself.I want to be confident.I want to be the person I am in front to my classesand to let them know what you're capable of.
COLIN DOUGLAS: Approaching the interview door now,I'm thinking, this is going to go very well,I'm going to get this job, I'm going to do my very best.I'm feeling confident.
NARRATOR: Colin starts his two-minute presentation.
COLIN DOUGLAS: First, I'd like to say that I'mvery passionate about the role.I've taken on additional responsibilitiessuch as the year 10 gold pathway students, again, helpingthose students to really set their own targetsin performance review day and monitoringand helping them to achieve the best that they possibly can.
KEVIN WYRE: What would you say isthe difference between leadership and management?
COLIN DOUGLAS: Well, management, as it comes across,is very much taking boxes and making sure everythingis happening as it should be.Leadership is having any thoughtsabout how I want things to work and leading your teamand getting your team and helping your teamto work towards a common goal.
ROSS: What will you do for the students in your subject's areathat would make students like us want to supportyour claim to this job?
COLIN DOUGLAS: I think I can offerthe students, firstly and foremostly, passion.As a classroom teacher, I want the best for the students.As a a key stage coordinator, I want the best for my students.And I really would want to demonstrate to studentsthat I'm there for them, and I'm there to support them.So making them buy into that ethos,really, by explaining it fully and making sure
COLIN DOUGLAS [continued]: they're aware of where I'm coming from and what I expect.
KEVIN WYRE: Thank you very much.
COLIN DOUGLAS: Thank you.Thank you.
COLIN DOUGLAS: I think the answers were certainly better.I took that pause before I answered the question.And then also, I stopped before I started to completely repeatmyself continually.On the way down, I was able to settle my nerves a lot more,even though at times I felt more nervous in the lead-up.But actually, whenever I walked into the room,I felt a lot calmer than I ever have.
NARRATOR: Now it's Raj's turn.Her presentation went very wrong last time.
RAJ JUTLEY: A head of department roleis a key role in the school, not onlyfor the success of the school, but raising standardsof the students.A head of department needs to have a mission.They have to have a direction, and theyhave to have motivation, all of which I have.I'm also very, very passionate about my job.
RAJ JUTLEY [continued]: I love my job.I love developing initiatives.I love seeing success.And I just want to finish up by sayingI'm really eager and excited about takingthe next step into my career.
STEVE WILKS: OK.Thank you very much.What would you say is the biggest challengefor middle managers as, firstly, individuals and, secondly,as team leaders?
RAJ JUTLEY: Could you repeat that?
STEVE WILKS: Yeah, sorry.What would you say is the biggestchallenge for middle managers?So if you were appointed, firstly,to you as an individual, and then, secondly,as being a leader of a team?
RAJ JUTLEY: I think it's very important for a middle leaderto have direction, to have a vision of wherethey want the department to go.I suppose the challenge would be to knowexactly where that direction is and to havea very clear vision, and they are going to communicate it
RAJ JUTLEY [continued]: across the department.
STEVE WILKS: If you were successful today,what would you do to develop your team of staff?
RAJ JUTLEY: I think it's really important to be positive.It's really important to praise peoplewhen they do something good and give the opportunity for peoplein the department to take on responsibilities,give them a purpose--not only as a class teacher, but develop them professionally
RAJ JUTLEY [continued]: as well.
KEVIN WYRE: OK.Thank you very much.
ROSS: Thank you.
STEVE WILKS: Ms. Raj, well done.
RAJ JUTLEY: I was very conscious of my speech.So I'm hoping that came across.I think my two-minute presentation was better.And I had my notes on paper, but Ididn't look at them because I did practice a lot more.
NARRATOR: So what's the panel's verdict?
STEVE WILKS: First of all, I'd liketo say we feel you both made significant improvements.But if I could outline the main points.First of all, Colin, I think one of the big improvementsI felt in your performance this time was that your answers werea lot more concise and you'd really thought morecarefully about the questions.I think during the first interviewwe had a couple of weeks ago, we felt
STEVE WILKS [continued]: that you talked for long periods of time.And perhaps at the end of it, I'dreally lost what the question was about.I think if I looked at my pad this time,I see very clearly you still managedto bring through your answers, what I think you're all about.And that's passion, enthusiasm, and commitment.
KEVIN WYRE: You both were able to beyourselves much more today.The other big difference I thought,though, was you came in to today expectingto not let yourself down.There was a much more clearly seen,from my perspective, way in which today youwere managing that anxiety.Because you didn't let yourself down.Some really, really good answers.
KEVIN WYRE [continued]: And when you'd answered them, you shut up at that point,rather than answer it again--and in some cases a third time as well.So it's really good.
STEVE WILKS: Can I move on to Raj?If you look in terms of improvement,I think you made a big leap between the two weeks.It was very thoughtful.The language was much better, although Ifelt you started off with a term I wouldn't use in an interviewwhen you talked about "you guys."
RAJ JUTLEY: Yes, I knew it.Soon as I said it, I knew it, yeah.
KEVIN WYRE: Also, you brought the notes in.And last time, it was like, I brought the notes,I'm reading the notes.You weren't reading the notes this time.They were just there.And you talked through your presentation.And again, it had lots and lots of good ideas.So massive improvement, really, for bothof you, but particularly you, Raj, I thought.
RAJ JUTLEY: I've learned a lot.I still have to learn more.But I actually went in there.I knew what I was doing wrong, whereas before I didn't.
COLIN DOUGLAS: It's been an excellent experience.I just feel more confident going into interviews.As Raj has been saying, I still think that there's a way to go.There's still a learning curve, but I thinkwe're a good way along it.And just bring on the next interview, really.
NARRATOR: For Lee McAuliffe's top tipson interview techniques, go to the Teachers TV website.
Publisher: Andrew Bethell Associates
Publication Year: 2009
Keywords: academic English; body language; career coaching; career style interview; interpersonal skills; interview in work and organizational settings; leadership (educational); occupational professionalism; presentation skills; self-confidence; teacher knowledge; verbal communication; work experience ... Show More
Segment Num.: 1
Watch as two educators work to improve their interview skills. Professional development coach Lee McAuliffe provides feedback on their progress.
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Watch as two educators work to improve their interview skills. Professional development coach Lee McAuliffe provides feedback on their progress.